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Image for The Annandale defends The Sando

The Annandale defends TheSando

The Annandale Hotel has jumped to the defence of divisive Sydney venue The Sandringham Hotel publishing an open letter of support on their Facebook.

In response to an Op Ed piece published on FL yesterday, in which musician Brendan McLean discusses why he won’t miss The Sando, The Dale – which came close to closure itself last year – writes that “Sydney is the most regulated city in the country if not the world; add to that the difficulties in getting people to shows, not to mention actually getting promoters and booking agents to put shows on anywhere outside of oxford street and kings cross, the endless licensing, resident and council issues a business like the sando surely had to face, and maybe you should be commending the sando crew for having a crack for the last seven years instead of complaining that you had to go the bar to get a beer.”

The Sando has also published an open letter on its Facebook.

The Annandale’s statement:

Brendan Maclean, I’m not sure if I’ve met you around the traps in my twelve years of owning the Annandale hotel but on this occasion you are an imbecile. it amazes me how keen people like you are to put the boot into someone who has fallen on hard times. Ask any small business owner how tough it is at the moment to stay afloat and you may start to get an indication of the difficulties facing independent operators.

Sydney is the most regulated city in the country if not the world; add to that the difficulties in getting people to shows, not to mention actually getting promoters and booking agents to put shows on anywhere outside of oxford street and kings cross, the endless licensing, resident and council issues a business like the sando surely had to face, and maybe you should be commending the sando crew for having a crack for the last seven years instead of complaining that you had to go the bar to get a beer. it surprised me how much criticism we received here when we took down the for sale sign and started the buy a brick campaign from certain circles. it was keyboard commentators like yourself who threw out the most uneducated comments about how and why the Annandale got to the position it ‘is’ still currently in. at the time we didn’t return fire as we felt it was only justifying what were cowardly ill informed barbs from people who really had no idea.

Brendan and the rest of you armchair commentators who feel more comfortable throwing your ‘expertise around’ from the safety of your keyboards, you will find me pretty much 7 days a week at the Annandale hotel. Please come down and enlighten with me your experience and expertise in how to run a live music hotel. Apparently you’re a sometimes triple j presenter, do the right thing and find out what is really going on before you make such stupid public comments.

The Sando’s statement:

Well it’s disappointing that your experience was not what you expected or desired at the Sando. It is also disappointing you use the facts sparingly and from your own personal experience and not that of others as well…

Regards costs we tried to push an incentive scheme to artists not a penalty one and $200 not $300 was the fee for PA & Lights, operators and door staff. This was fee was wavered for good results i.e do the numbers the PA, Lights…etc are free. Unlike other door deal venues where you pay up to $300 irrespective of the result. Your comments regards sound people I can’t comment on as I was not there but I can tell you out of the some 500-600 bands we have had in the venue, provided they have acted in a professional and respectful manner have received a great mix, professional attitude and been welcomed by all crew at the Sando. I do agree it is difficult for an acoustic set to occur at the same time a loud act is playing downstairs and we did solve this to a large degree with programming music styles.

I find it incredibly selfish and bizzare that any “real” musician would welcome a live venue closure and not strive to make it better when the opportunity was there. Grave yard comments and nasty remarks won’t create a new venue in fact will probably encourage other venues to close or not even try the live model. I would have thought some sympathy, positive energy to make it better would have been the trick. I just don’t see how your article or comments can be view as nothing more than a guy who had a bad gig.

I am sure there are 1000’s of muso that have had that experience with other venues…. In retrospect I would have been nicer and more productive for you to have knocked on my door, discuss the matter and try to help us, instead of kicking us when we are at our lowest… Sorry for your bad experience & pain.

Comments

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oldgregg

oldgregg said on the 12th Jul, 2012

it's all gone handbags.

RAMONESelaar

RAMONESelaar said on the 12th Jul, 2012

"Sydney is the most regulated city in the country"

Victoria's liquor licensing system says hi.

Fake Plastic Android

Fake Plastic Android said on the 12th Jul, 2012

"Sydney is the most regulated city in the country"

Victoria's liquor licensing system says hi.

From my experiences NSW has much tighter liquor laws than Victoria.

RAMONESelaar

RAMONESelaar said on the 12th Jul, 2012



This article relates more to AA shows, but it does highlight some of the issues with the Victorian system.

Fink Daddy

Fink Daddy said on the 12th Jul, 2012

yes, we can argue about who has the tougher regulatory system, licensing laws, etc. but the point here is that brendan mclean is dumping shit on a venue that has provided some excellent music and memorable nights for me and, i'm sure, many others, based on the fact that he had a single bad experience there. given the lack of venues in sydney willing to put on non-commercial artists, this sort of negativity is counter-productive and ultimately pretty sad.

Fake Plastic Android

Fake Plastic Android said on the 12th Jul, 2012

Yeah fuck freedom of speech man! Fuck that shit!

grattan

grattan said on the 12th Jul, 2012

Story updated with the open letter published by The Sando.

RAMONESelaar

RAMONESelaar said on the 12th Jul, 2012



How dare he have reasonably voiced his opinion! ESPECIALLY when it's different to yours! The nerve of these people, honestly.



Pot, kettle, black.

Napoleon Solo

Napoleon Solo said on the 12th Jul, 2012

Sando crew, mass respect. That was a well thought out reply, classy stuff.

Fake Plastic Android

Fake Plastic Android said on the 12th Jul, 2012



Probably the most sane and constructive letter so far in this saga. Kudos to whom ever penned that.

berlinchair101

berlinchair101 said on the 12th Jul, 2012

I don't see how it's counterproductive?

One guy said he didn't like a venue and that he wasn't sad to see it close down then raised some points regarding how the Sando approached a financial system that is fairly common in Sydney venues, saying he thought artists there got stiffed. That's all. It got published because it was an alternate opinion from the norm from a fairly well known personality in the Sydney music scene.

How his opinion has caused so much vitriol has really surprised me. I don't even agree with most of what he says, but I think for the most part he made some fair points. Such as that it may be beneficial for both bands and venues if they worked together more cohesively and treated each other with a little more professional respect.

People are acting like walked up to the financially troubled owner of the Sando and raped him.

Napoleon Solo

Napoleon Solo said on the 12th Jul, 2012

How dare he have reasonably voiced his opinion! ESPECIALLY when it's different to yours! The nerve of these people, honestly.


Is it reasonable though? He has been taken to task for a few of his facts by the owner and other musicians.

berlinchair101

berlinchair101 said on the 12th Jul, 2012

Great response from the Sando.

I do feel they would have done better to ignore it though. I really don't see how one guys article would really bother them. Good to see they kept the response level headed though.

crankinhaus

crankinhaus said on the 12th Jul, 2012

freedom of speech? yes, these days anybody is free to publicly be a twat. so be it ...

speaking as someone who has played these joints more than once, never have experienced any of what brendan bemoans about the sando.

pure speculation, but very often in life you get back what you give out.

RAMONESelaar

RAMONESelaar said on the 12th Jul, 2012



I meant more that how he expressed his thoughts was reasonable - I live in Melbourne, I wouldn't have the faintest idea who's "right" in this situation.

Maclean wrote what was obviously an opinion piece and managed to do so without resorting to name-calling and the "you're wrong, I'm sure everyone else agrees with me" responses of the Annandale and Sandringham.

Napoleon Solo

Napoleon Solo said on the 12th Jul, 2012

I meant more that how he expressed his thoughts was reasonable - I live in Melbourne, I wouldn't have the faintest idea who's "right" in this situation.

Maclean wrote what was obviously an opinion piece and managed to do so without resorting to name-calling and the "you're wrong, I'm sure everyone else agrees with me" responses of the Annandale and Sandringham.

You got that from the Sando response?
Why it may have been an opinion piece, that doesn't grant a licence to misrepresent the facts.

RAMONESelaar

RAMONESelaar said on the 12th Jul, 2012

You got that from the Sando response?
Why it may have been an opinion piece, that doesn't grant a licence to misrepresent the facts.

"Your comments regards sound people I can’t comment on as I was not there but I can tell you out of the some 500-600 bands we have had in the venue, provided they have acted in a professional and respectful manner have received a great mix, professional attitude and been welcomed by all crew at the Sando."

Other than the green room issue, what facts were misrepresented?

Fake Plastic Android

Fake Plastic Android said on the 12th Jul, 2012

This all could have been avoided if Brendan McLean was just honest about his main beef with the Sando... There was a severe lack of coke and hookers in the green room.

hodges

hodges said on the 12th Jul, 2012

i think this exposes him for the child he is. it's an meida attack on a venue with no factual info. just that he personally had a bad experience there. not at all surprised if this is an attempt at a publicity stunt. the kardashian generation!

berlinchair101

berlinchair101 said on the 12th Jul, 2012



http://i970.photobucket.com/albums/ae182/itsnachobucket/GIFs/johnstewart_facepalm.gif

Napoleon Solo

Napoleon Solo said on the 12th Jul, 2012



http://gifsforum.com/images/gif/wtf/grand/Tenacious-D-wtf-eccbc87e4b5ce2fe28308fd9f2a7baf3-776.gif

shazie

shazie said on the 13th Jul, 2012

Just a nitpick from a couple comments, Australia doesn't actually have any freedom of speech act in the constitution. We have implied freedom of speech, but not an implicit freedom of speech act (there's political freedom of speech or something like that though). Nothing specific about this article, just thought people might find it interesting.

Napoleon Solo

Napoleon Solo said on the 14th Jul, 2012

"Your comments regards sound people I can’t comment on as I was not there but I can tell you out of the some 500-600 bands we have had in the venue, provided they have acted in a professional and respectful manner have received a great mix, professional attitude and been welcomed by all crew at the Sando."

Other than the green room issue, what facts were misrepresented?

How does that construe as the Sando telling him his wrong?



Other than the green room issue, what facts were misrepresented?

The $300 fine.

TFTtheband

TFTtheband said on the 16th Jul, 2012

my ep launch for my band tft was last thursday @ the sando,,,12/7/2012,
and all i can say is "thank you so much to all at the sando, i had an awesome gig, i have been playing there for a few years and u really are my favourite pub venue.
when no one else would give me the opportunity to play my metal, u did, u gave me the chance to express my art/music the way i wanted too,, no questions asked, in an environment that still feels just right,,,,,dont change a thing.
so musician brendan mclean, its great to see u supporting the local music scene,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, if u worked at jjj then, i thought a bit more of an educated opinion would be formed than just personal expression, anyway.
sando u are amazing, my gig had 124 payers and 26 on door, on a thursday night,, i only booked the small room thou cause it was my ep launch, u gave me the big room, for no extra cost,,,,,awesome,,,,,richard the sound guy, was really good as always,,seriously he knows his shit,,,and the lighting was epic,,,,,,little wolf you rock bro ;)
thou seriously thank you for the gig last week,,,thanks to max, that helped me promote the gig for free (,,, thanks for having cute rocker chicks on ya bar,,,,,and thank you for having a scene in newtown where weak, tight jeaned, soft cock rockers and de-caff indy wannabes never had a chance of makin it there pub,,they have the rest of sydney for that,,,,,,go to the oxford then,,,and leave my awesome metal pub alone and how about we put ourselves in the sando's boots first before talking shit.

Braveheart81

Braveheart81 said on the 16th Jul, 2012

,,,dont change a thing.


I think the point is the place has gone into administration.

Their business model for whatever reason wasn't working.

Whilst people may not agree with Brendan Maclean's comments and from his more recent updates, he certainly regrets the way he said certain things, one thing that is clear is that there needs to be greater collaboration between venues and musicians.

When a venue closes, everyone needs to look at ways to avoid that happening, not to just blame punters for not turning up or councils for putting too many restrictions on a venue or whatever other reason people want to cite.

hedonism gibbon

hedonism gibbon said on the 17th Jul, 2012

I meant more that how he expressed his thoughts was reasonable - I live in Melbourne, I wouldn't have the faintest idea who's "right" in this situation.
.

then stop stirring shit with people that are clearly and very justifiably riled that the Sando is closing and some knob-end who happens to be able to write is trying to say it''s a good thing when it most certainly and obviously is not a good thing at all

RAMONESelaar

RAMONESelaar said on the 18th Jul, 2012



You come in several days after this article was published, call people names and selectively read the article and yet I'M the one shit stirring?

At no stage in his article did Brendan Mclean say it was a good thing the Sando is closing. The closest he came was saying that "it's not really a loss"

Brendan Mclean and Matt Rule have already discussed the issue with each other in another article published here on FL, I'd suggest you read it before making any further accusations.

hedonism gibbon

hedonism gibbon said on the 19th Jul, 2012

sorry for not being a daily visiter, or avid reader of stuff from people i've never heard of, BUT IT IS A LOSS!! to many people, there's plenty of looong rants from pissed off sydney folk in these sando threads, obviously happy Sando goers like me ....but how would you know if it's a loss of not apart from one FL article?

if u were a cricketer you'd never get out but never score a run

MorningAfterboy

MorningAfterboy said on the 19th Jul, 2012

Might wanna calm down on the ol' drinky-drinky there, hedo.

hedonism gibbon

hedonism gibbon said on the 19th Jul, 2012

don't start me MAB

a 20 yr old with RAMONES in his name is gunna shit any ol fart like me, even if he likes dinosaur jr!

hedonism gibbon

hedonism gibbon said on the 19th Jul, 2012

for the record, i've had 4 beers, and i haven't been here for nearly a month cos my Mum died 2 weeks ago, and the first thing i read is the Sando is closing, which from my punter perspective REALLY sucks, as if things don't suck enough at the moment.

MorningAfterboy

MorningAfterboy said on the 19th Jul, 2012

His username is a play on his last name, not worth getting riled up about.

I'm really sorry to hear of your loss, mate. I lost my mother in April, so my heart goes out to you.

berlinchair101

berlinchair101 said on the 19th Jul, 2012

Sorry about your loss' guys. My thoughts are with you.

snapcrackleROCK

snapcrackleROCK said on the 19th Jul, 2012

Sorry to hear that, Mabs (and Gibbo), I didn't know that.

RAMONESelaar

RAMONESelaar said on the 19th Jul, 2012



I wouldn't know.

That's why I said I wouldn't know and that's why I haven't said that it IS a loss.

You're getting shitty over things that haven't even been said.

hedonism gibbon

hedonism gibbon said on the 20th Jul, 2012


I'm really sorry to hear of your loss, mate. I lost my mother in April, so my heart goes out to you.


thanks mate, and that's not good at all to hear either, sorry man, i'm not sure your age but how old was your mum? Too young i'm guessing. although i'm 42 my mum was only 65, thought she'd live for longer than dad easily, who died at 74 two years ago.

so i guess i better enjoy these next 20-odd years once i get my head around mum not being here anymore :-/




sorry RAMONES, whatever eh, i'll buy u a beer when i'm down in ViC for the melbourne cup later in the year and you can show me a good pub venue down there for the vasco era or someone like that

RAMONESelaar

RAMONESelaar said on the 20th Jul, 2012

No problem dude, just glad to clear this up. Sorry for your loss too.

grattan

grattan said on the 23rd Aug, 2012

http://saveoursando.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/rally-in-the-park-capture.jpg