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Tegan and Sara Vs Odd Future

Few acts have been hyped as much as Odd Future in 2011. The group has been releasing free mixtapes for several years, but burst thorough to a more mainstream audience this year with notable appearances on Late Night with Jimmy Fallon and at SXSW and the first ‘official’ album released by the a member of the group – Tyler the Creator’s Goblin.

The group quickly sold out shows at Vivid LIVE and sideshows in Melbourne and Brisbane and Kanye West, Diddy, Mos Def, Pitchfork and a parade of other musicians and writers have lined up bestow the collective with the title – ‘the future of rap’.

However, along with the hype there has also been a rival thread of analysis and criticism that focuses on the group’s violent lyrics, which overflow with violent rape scenes and homophobic slurs. Sara Quin from the Canadian duo Tegan and Sara has joined the chorus of Odd Future criticism, bemoaning the praise heaped on the controversial hip hop crew by issuing a “A Call for Change” on their website .

Quin’s Call for Change:

“When will misogynistic and homophobic ranting and raving result in meaningful repercussions in the entertainment industry? When will they be treated with the same seriousness as racist and anti-Semitic offenses? While an artist who can barely get a sentence fragment out without using homophobic slurs is celebrated on the cover of every magazine, blog and newspaper, I’m disheartened that any self-respecting human being could stand in support with a message so vile.

As journalists and colleagues defend, excuse and congratulate ‘Tyler, the Creator,’ I find it impossible not to comment. In any other industry would I be expected to tolerate, overlook and find deeper meaning in this kid’s sickening rhetoric? Why should I care about this music or its “brilliance” when the message is so repulsive and irresponsible? There is much that upsets me in this world, and this certainly isn’t the first time I’ve drafted an open letter or complaint, but in the past I’ve found an opinion – some like-minded commentary – that let me rest assured that my outrage, my voice, had been accounted for. Not this time.

If any of the bands whose records are held in similar esteem as Goblin had lyrics littered with rape fantasies and slurs, would they be labeled hate mongers? I realize I could ask that question of DOZENS of other artists, but is Tyler exempt because people are afraid of the backlash? The inevitable claim that detractors are being racist, or the brush-off that not “getting it” would indicate that you’re “old” (or a faggot)? Because, the more I think about it, the more I think people don’t actually want to go up against this particular bully because he’s popular. Who sticks up for women and gay people now? It seems entirely uncool to do so in the indie rock world, and I’ll argue that point with ANYONE.

No genre is without its controversial and offensive characters- I’m not naive. I’ve asked myself a thousand times why this is pushing me over the edge. Maybe it’s the access to him (his grotesque twitter, etc). Maybe it’s because I’m a human being, both a girl and a lesbian. Maybe it’s because my mom has spent her whole adult life working with teenage girls who were victims of sexual assault. Maybe it’s because in this case I don’t think race or class actually has anything to do with his hateful message but has EVERYTHING to do with why everyone refuses to admonish him for that message.

It is not without great hesitation and hand wringing that I enter into the discourse about Tyler, the media who glorifies and excuses misogyny and homophobia, and the community of artists that doesn’t seem remotely bothered by it. I can only hope that someone reading this might be inspired to speak out. At the very least, I will know that my voice is on record.”

Showing typical restraint, Tyler has responded on Twitter “If Tegan And Sara Need Some Hard Dick, Hit Me Up!”. Odd Future are due to play their first Australian show later this month… we’re counting down the days until the tabloids realise.

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grattan

grattan said on the 12th Aug, 2011

Steve Albini Vs Odd future:

I spent about 40 minutes with these little pricks at the end of May and I haven’t wanted to strangle anybody that much in a real long time.

My band shared an airport shuttle with them in Barcelona. They piled onto the shuttle late, after finally getting corralled by their minder, who was nursing a head wound with an ice bag wrapped in a towel. They piled in, niggering everything in sight, motherfucking the driver, boasting into the air unbidden about getting their dicks sucked and calling everyone in the area a faggot. Then one of them lit a joint (or a pipe, I didn’t look) and told the driver to shut the fuck up nigger and smoked it anyway. A female passenger tried to engage one of them in conversation, but he just stared at her with a dead-to-me stare while his seatmate flipped double birds in her face.

The whole trip they complained about not being at a McDonald’s and repeatedly shouted for the motherfucker to pull over so they could get some fucking McDonald’s nigger. Interspersed with the McDonald’s requests were shouted boasts about how often they masturbated and fucked bitches nigger and got paid like a motherfucker fifty grand like a motherfucker. They continued complaining that the trip was taking too long and insisted they be fed immediately all the way to the airport, where their minder presumably fed them.

I am quite happy none of them engaged me directly, because at least one of us would have regretted it.

I am well aware, thanks, that good people can make ugly art and that ugly people can make good art. Ultimately the function of art is to express something and move an idea from one person to another, and the tools of that can include revulsion and discomfort. Having been in a few bands myself, thanks, I know that the uninitiated can mistake these devices as windows into the soul of the creator. Ultimately they are, of course, but not necessarily in the crude autobiographical way they are often interpreted.

I know all that, so I am never quick to judge a person based on a superficial reading of creative output. Peter Sotos is a lovely fellow whom I trust implicitly, despite his writing evoking a truly primal disgust in me, to use another rapey example. Michael Gerald from Killdozer said it best in an interview, when the journalist remarked that he seemed like a nice fellow, which was unexpected given that the characters in his songs are often repellent. “Oh, that’s not us,” he said, “that’s the crazy people we sing about.” In that light, I am one hundred percent behind Odd Future’s right to rap about what they wanna rap about, and if she don’t like it fuck her.

And also fuck me. It’s none of my business what they wanna. I’m not part of the audience for hip hop, and as a non-dilettante I don’t generally respond to it when I hear it, so I can’t make any critical assessment of Odd Future’s music on its own terms, but they go out of their way to make it clear that this is not a case of regular people making music about assholes, but assholes making music about being assholes. I have no time for that. I don’t respond kindly to it when Ted Nugent does it either.

If the whole thing is a put-on, a bit of Vincent Gallo life-as-theater for the benefit of whoever happens to be sitting next to them, that’s no excuse. It’s being an asshole about being an asshole.

SlowerQuieter

SlowerQuieter said on the 12th Aug, 2011

Steve Albini Vs Odd future:

I spent about 40 minutes with these little pricks at the end of May and I haven’t wanted to strangle anybody that much in a real long time.

My band shared an airport shuttle with them in Barcelona. They piled onto the shuttle late, after finally getting corralled by their minder, who was nursing a head wound with an ice bag wrapped in a towel. They piled in, ******ing everything in sight, motherfucking the driver, boasting into the air unbidden about getting their dicks sucked and calling everyone in the area a faggot. Then one of them lit a joint (or a pipe, I didn’t look) and told the driver to shut the fuck up ****** and smoked it anyway. A female passenger tried to engage one of them in conversation, but he just stared at her with a dead-to-me stare while his seatmate flipped double birds in her face.

The whole trip they complained about not being at a McDonald’s and repeatedly shouted for the motherfucker to pull over so they could get some fucking McDonald’s ******. Interspersed with the McDonald’s requests were shouted boasts about how often they masturbated and fucked bitches ****** and got paid like a motherfucker fifty grand like a motherfucker. They continued complaining that the trip was taking too long and insisted they be fed immediately all the way to the airport, where their minder presumably fed them.

I am quite happy none of them engaged me directly, because at least one of us would have regretted it.

I am well aware, thanks, that good people can make ugly art and that ugly people can make good art. Ultimately the function of art is to express something and move an idea from one person to another, and the tools of that can include revulsion and discomfort. Having been in a few bands myself, thanks, I know that the uninitiated can mistake these devices as windows into the soul of the creator. Ultimately they are, of course, but not necessarily in the crude autobiographical way they are often interpreted.

I know all that, so I am never quick to judge a person based on a superficial reading of creative output. Peter Sotos is a lovely fellow whom I trust implicitly, despite his writing evoking a truly primal disgust in me, to use another rapey example. Michael Gerald from Killdozer said it best in an interview, when the journalist remarked that he seemed like a nice fellow, which was unexpected given that the characters in his songs are often repellent. “Oh, that’s not us,” he said, “that’s the crazy people we sing about.” In that light, I am one hundred percent behind Odd Future’s right to rap about what they wanna rap about, and if she don’t like it fuck her.

And also fuck me. It’s none of my business what they wanna. I’m not part of the audience for hip hop, and as a non-dilettante I don’t generally respond to it when I hear it, so I can’t make any critical assessment of Odd Future’s music on its own terms, but they go out of their way to make it clear that this is not a case of regular people making music about assholes, but assholes making music about being assholes. I have no time for that. I don’t respond kindly to it when Ted Nugent does it either.

If the whole thing is a put-on, a bit of Vincent Gallo life-as-theater for the benefit of whoever happens to be sitting next to them, that’s no excuse. It’s being an asshole about being an asshole.

In fairness Steve Albini is probably the biggest whinger in music. But he raises some interesting and sometimes valid points.

grattan

grattan said on the 4th Nov, 2011

[URL="http://www.billboard.com/news/tegan-and-sara-s-tegan-quin-on-get-along-1005474002.story#/news/tegan-and-sara-s-tegan-quin-on-get-along-1005474002.story"]Follow up from Sara in an interview with Billboard:

n response to the homophobic and misogynistic lyrics of Tyler's album "Goblin," Quin wrote a letter titled "Call for Change" on the group's blog in May, in which she decried the rapper's "sickening rhetoric" and asked, "Why should I care about this music or its 'brilliance' when the message is so repulsive and irresponsible?"

Although Sara Quin has stayed silent on the subject after issuing the blog post, Tegan says that the reaction to her sister's letter was "overwhelmingly positive," and helped to shine a light on a problem that extends beyond Tyler, The Creator.

"The conversation was directed at the industry and not at Tyler, The Creator," says Quin. "I agree that our industry often times is so busy just telling the story of what's happening that the they don't realize that they're perpetuating a stereotype, or perpetuating something very evil and negative. Tyler, The Creator may in fact not be a homophobe, but the fact is that, if I littered this interview with racial slurs, you wouldn't laugh at all later if I told you it was a joke. I think that we have to be better than that, we have to be better as a society. It's not about censorship and it's not about telling people you can't make music. Tyler can make as much music as he likes and continue to flourish or not, but ultimately, we live in a society where we absolutely have the power to say, 'Geez, you know what, we don't want to influence our readers with something that we don't believe in, and we don't believe that littering a record 233 times with rape jokes and incest jokes and the word faggot is funny or interesting.'"

Since Sara Quin issued her "Call for Change," Tyler, The Creator's profile has continued to grow, with a win for Best New Artist at the MTV VMAs serving as one of his highlights for 2011. Nevertheless, Tegan believes that derogatory lyrics can someday stop being pushed to the forefront of mainstream music for the sake of turning a profit. "I talked to a lot of people in our industry who are like, 'If we … didn't put him on this festival, we'd lose money and we'd lose our jobs,' and that's a terrible reason to perpetuate hate," she says. "But that is the way it is and hopefully it changes, and Sara and I hope to be a part of that change. We can be interesting and we can be creative without being hateful."

berlinchair101

berlinchair101 said on the 4th Nov, 2011

[URL="http://www.billboard.com/news/tegan-and-sara-s-tegan-quin-on-get-along-1005474002.story#/news/tegan-and-sara-s-tegan-quin-on-get-along-1005474002.story"]Follow up from Sara in an interview with Billboard:

n response to the homophobic and misogynistic lyrics of Tyler's album "Goblin," Quin wrote a letter titled "Call for Change" on the group's blog in May, in which she decried the rapper's "sickening rhetoric" and asked, "Why should I care about this music or its 'brilliance' when the message is so repulsive and irresponsible?"

Although Sara Quin has stayed silent on the subject after issuing the blog post, Tegan says that the reaction to her sister's letter was "overwhelmingly positive," and helped to shine a light on a problem that extends beyond Tyler, The Creator.

"The conversation was directed at the industry and not at Tyler, The Creator," says Quin. "I agree that our industry often times is so busy just telling the story of what's happening that the they don't realize that they're perpetuating a stereotype, or perpetuating something very evil and negative. Tyler, The Creator may in fact not be a homophobe, but the fact is that, if I littered this interview with racial slurs, you wouldn't laugh at all later if I told you it was a joke. I think that we have to be better than that, we have to be better as a society. It's not about censorship and it's not about telling people you can't make music. Tyler can make as much music as he likes and continue to flourish or not, but ultimately, we live in a society where we absolutely have the power to say, 'Geez, you know what, we don't want to influence our readers with something that we don't believe in, and we don't believe that littering a record 233 times with rape jokes and incest jokes and the word faggot is funny or interesting.'"

Since Sara Quin issued her "Call for Change," Tyler, The Creator's profile has continued to grow, with a win for Best New Artist at the MTV VMAs serving as one of his highlights for 2011. Nevertheless, Tegan believes that derogatory lyrics can someday stop being pushed to the forefront of mainstream music for the sake of turning a profit. "I talked to a lot of people in our industry who are like, 'If we … didn't put him on this festival, we'd lose money and we'd lose our jobs,' and that's a terrible reason to perpetuate hate," she says. "But that is the way it is and hopefully it changes, and Sara and I hope to be a part of that change. We can be interesting and we can be creative without being hateful."

That's pushing it.