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Has the Festival Bubble burst?

Fri 6th Jan, 2012 in Features

We all know that the FL Forums love a good “impassioned discussion”, so each Friday over the next five weeks we will be fuelling that chatter with five controversial music debates. Thanks to Hyundai’s new Veloster Coupe will be giving away prizes each week for the best debaters.

The first debate topic in the series is ‘Has the Festival Bubble burst?” and the prize, which will be awarded next Thursday, is a double pass to the 2012 Laneway Festival of your choice. To get things started, we have taken a look back at the year of festival madness.

Has the Festival Bubble burst?

Festivals. They are the worst! No wait, the best thing ever! Subject to the petty whims of Facebook bullies! Perhaps there’s just too damn many of them? Hey, no dickheads, please.

Let’s go back.

There was a time, many moons ago, when the Big Day Out was the only horse in the race, pretty much. Touring acts to Australia was always a tricky proposition: we’re so far away and acts most usually want to be paid in US dollars, hence bringing big name bands out here cost promoters a bundle, which they then passed on to punters in the form of high ticket prices. But the Big Day Out went a long way towards changing the touring landscape. Its brand was bulletproof, a sell-out event that could be counted on year in year out to bring top shelf international artists to our shores every summer. It was the number one gig of the year, and a devastating blow to miss out on tickets.

Oh, how times have changed! If you miss out on BDO tickets there are approximately billions of other festivals you can attend. Even once fearless BDO promoter Vivian Lees is running scared from the ire of the internet, burned out on festival fatigue. Plus we all know what the internet did to the poor BAM! Festival.

“Festival season”, which was once the domain of the summer long party months, is now a year-round event and it’s harder to find a time when someone isn’t putting a festival on then when they are. In 2011 there were over thirty major festivals alone in Australia.

This incredible glut of events has seen a bunch of them take a year off, or drastically downsize their operations. And really it is no wonder as this is a very simple case of supply vs demand: there are too many festivals and it seems we just don’t have enough money, or perhaps we are just spending money on other things? Heck, apparently the festival circuit is so overstuffed that not even something headlined by the Vengaboys in which everyone also was to dress as a zombie could survive. Perhaps they needed to guarantee that the bands would also be dressing as the undead? Who wouldn’t pay to see that?

Festivals are by their nature tribal gatherings, picking your allegiance to one is like picking your football team: it says a lot about the kind of person you are. For example, you’ll probably not find Parklife aficionados cavorting at Harvest Festival with a nice cup of tea. Even something like the short-lived ATP Festival which billed itself as “boutique”, was established in direct opposition to institutions like the Big Day Out, which for many people had come to represent a weird kind of jingoism that was completely at odds with the festival culture they knew. Also, those people were older now, and they needed somewhere to geriatrically rock out with fellow old people without having a pectoral muscle rubbed in their face. So why does something like Meredith, another extremely successful boutique Festival thrive year after year, where ATP folded after only one year? Their calibre of artists was infinitely comparable. Perhaps this, like football, comes down along state lines? Do Victorians just care the most about live music? Looking at Sydney’s pitifully few live music venues, rough mathematics point to yes.

An additional spanner in the works for festivals is punters’ growing desire to attend sideshows. Why fork out hundreds of dollars for the privilege of traipsing around a giant, dirty field full of people you don’t feel akin with, in order to see half a set you missed the first half of because the lines at the bar stretched into last Wednesday, when you could spend the same amount on seeing just the two or three acts you really want to see at their inevitable sideshows? Exactly!

What is the solution? We aren’t sure! Maybe it’s something like: let’s crowd-source the ideal festival! The Zombie Kayne Westlife Park Splendour Harvest, or something like that. We’ll take all your best ideas, shake them up inside a giant VB can and them we’ll turn the results into a lovely chart and come up with the Next Great International Music Festival, just like Pitchfork!

Seriously, festivals. What is their deal? Get debating and you could win tickets to go to one!

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deanoss

deanoss said on the 6th Jan, 2012

Fans used to be genuinely excited when their favourite bands would tour as part of BDO, nowadays they are here every 2 years on various other festivals, and as such the excitement levels shrink and their willingness to shell out another $150 to see predominantly the same songs just isn't there.
The advent of new festivals is great for the average punter, with many talented acts on various bills, however the talent pool is the same, it's just each festival is now diluted with alot of filler acts. It's become harder and harder for festivals to set the standard these days

sarcasm_mister

sarcasm_mister said on the 6th Jan, 2012

i think through 2010 and 2011 the australian festival scene hit its saturation point. i can only really provide a sydney perspective. with over half a dozen major music festivals (can't think of many other cities of a similar size with that many) there simply isn't room for any more so the only way forward now is to go backwards. but whether that will happen is difficult to determine. because although a lot of these festivals aren't performng as well as they would like, i can't imagine any of them biting the dust any time soon. looking at the aforementioned 'major festivals'....

- Parklife did very well in 2011 in terms of lineup and turn out and it's held at a time when there isn't much competition
- Harvest was probably the most acclaimed festival of the summer and has hit a very lucrative niche market
- Homebake is very dependent on the quality of australian releases in any given year so it's hard to tell.
- Stereosonic went through the roof in 2011 with 45 000 attending in sydney. love it or hate it it's going no where.
- Big Day Out is still the biggest festival in the land and with this new deal with C3 Presents it might keep its head above water a little while longer
- Soundwave is sold out in most cities and AJ Maddah will decapitate several rockstars before seeing this thing die.
- Future Music has grown exponentially in the last few years and seems very comfortable.
- Laneway is treading dangerous ground with its focus on lesser known acts. but probably has the best reputation out of all the festivals in terms of the experience it provides.

so really the only negative change i can see happening in the festival market over the next few years is an increase in the number of bands doing festival only tours ie no sideshows.

ashryn

ashryn said on the 6th Jan, 2012

Camping festivals should be BYO, Security should be for safety, not policing.
Bands should be selected based on talent, curated by someone who knows music rather than someone who knows marketing.
There should be a fringe where buskers and local bands can play just for the hell of it
A Fluro playpen where they lock anyone wearing fluro :)

TominaK said on the 6th Jan, 2012

first of all, i agree that there's way too many festivals happening and the excitement isn't there. comparing the amount of festivals i attended in '09 and the amount i attended in '11, i can see even i, being a massive music lover, god bored shitless with festivals because of the watered down lineups and mainly talentless bands just sort of filling in. what i started doing is picking festivals that had clever lineups, and that's what should happen, clever lineups. and by that i mean that now it's hard to tell ' ok, is this a hipster indie fest? is it an all alternative fest? is it all dance music? ' now every festival has a mix of crowds and bands that most of the time makes no sense to me whatsoever, definitely not enough for me to spend my money on. then you get festivals like soundwave, which most of the time sells out, and it is always something i go to because the lineups is fantastic for the genre soundwave does, and because people know what soundwave does, i don't get to smell armpits of the parklife crowd. so what i suggest is that festivals, excluding events like bdo, that's a different breed, become more restricted to genre. yes, i'd love to go to a dubstep fest, or a prog fest, something where knowing you dig the sort of genre you're in for, you'll most likely watch more bands and get your money's worth, not do the waiting around all day for a few acts. initially seeing a ticket price from say $100 to $150 you think 'ok, that's worth seeing that many bands for' but realistically you always see just a few and that's when the sideshow becomes a very good alternative. on the other find a way to get enough toilets, bars and bar staff for these things, it can't be rocket science. one of the very small festivals in melbourne i attended in 2011 is called progfest, and it was the most well organised event i have ever attended, big promoters should take note. if it can be done this flawlessly on a small scale, it can be done on a big scale, if you've got the brains for it.

tonythecooldude

tonythecooldude said on the 6th Jan, 2012

maybe i'm turning into an old bastard but the whole festival experience isn't really that fun anymore. over-zealous security, mid-strength beer, rude patrons, armies of po-po with sniffer dogs, huge queues...i like to relax when out having a good time and i am finding festivals to be increasingly stressful experiences and that's why i have stopped attending most of them.

crob

crob said on the 6th Jan, 2012

I find the Australian festival scene is at a good point, it has enough variety to cater for most niche markets, yet big day out is the only festival left with something for everyone

random thoughts.
- The strength of the Australian dollar is making more young Australians keen to travel, what means they have less money for festival (I fall into this area)
- Festival are no longer good value for money, yes you get to see a more bands for less money, but you have to put up mid strength drinks, horrible crowds, sniffer digs and the heat my god THE HEAT!!
- The cost of living(in Sydney anyway) has gotten to the point that a lot of gen Y who have moved out of home for the first time have less money for play.

crob

crob said on the 6th Jan, 2012

Camping festivals should be BYO, Security should be for safety, not policing.

werd... they know everyone is trying to sneak in booze, why go to the effort of searching everyone car... 'T in the Park' had it right, the camping area is BYO but the music area isn't

bikinicarwash

bikinicarwash said on the 6th Jan, 2012

the festival bubble hasn't quite burst yet, but it is being prodded repeatedly with sharp sticks by angry punters.

the big festivals are beginning to develop the vibe of being mechanistic money making machines with the same recycled line ups of the same recycled bands. it's becoming increasingly clear that the punters aren't willing to shell out if there's no bang for their buck and the backlash is evident with the poor ticket sales of splendour and cancellations of other festivals.

a scaling back is definitely in order. a focus on diversity and value for money is what the public wants and this is clear with the continuing success of smaller boutique festivals like laneway and the impressive first year of harvest. these festivals have succeeded through focussing on the ticket buyers spending their hard earned cash by bringing out the bands the fans want to see and cutting the filler, and offering great value for money with diverse food stalls, art installations and alternative performances.

let's keep the bubble going!
http://daylife.com/imageserve/01qt5of2ez0os/439x.jpg

monkeyboy666 said on the 6th Jan, 2012

if you listen to the punters or at the very least engage with them you're going to have a greater idea of what the punters want to pay to see.

aj (whether you like or dislike the guy is irrelevant) he at least has his finger on the pulse by engaging with his punters. you only have to look at the success of both soundwave & harvest to see that.

how long his success lasts i've no idea, but at the moment the guy is killing it. if he keeps his greed in check i.e soundwave revolution he should at least stay relevant for a few more festival seasons, unless the mayan's are right, 2012 will be the last festival season for us all ;) muwahahahaha

Patrick_Marlin_27

Patrick_Marlin_27 said on the 6th Jan, 2012

this is a really poorly written article. i'd expect something like this from nme not fasterlouder; you've focus it all on big day out and smaller mainstreme focused music festivals completely ignoring the fact that soundwave has done extremely well in times of this global festival downturn. on the other hand; i agree with the point that festivals have lost their hype.
hence, i think that if someone were to create a two day national touring festival with some of the
world's largest acts, you'd see great attendance with large revenue.
these national one day festivals are growing tired, just like people grew tired of one day cricket. change needs to be implemented to gather interest. i think also that festivals needs to have further adaptions to the concept, so instead of just music and in some cases comedy, things like forums, art exhibitions, conventions, they should all be considered to boost numbers from offering to different audiences.

chickenman

chickenman said on the 6th Jan, 2012

I think we have either have hit 3 things, scalpers have given up maybe due to saturation, no one is creative anymore, hell, BDO looks like it rung splendour promoters for phone numbers. Punters are getting younger and look like they don't care, forget festivals for a moment, live music is alive but so many gigs r broke or not selling out, one band recently had 30 presolds, hence got cancelled and they were from USA. Mid-strength drinks have done nothing except made people broke, summerfield (not their fault maybe the bar owner) was selling 1 midstrength for $10-50, that was the price of full strength before the ban. something is going to give out sooner or later. I remember the excitement of coming home from splendour to here livids announcment, then not much longer, homebake, then BDO, then back to splendour, easy times and heaps of good gigs in between. We now losing major festivals and then replaced by try hard festivals that hang around for 2 yrs and go boom. Something or someone has lost the plot along the way. Also, public transport is really shit too, my first yr at summerfield and the last train was 11.04 pm, event finished at 11pm and it was a half hour bus ride to train. although they were some bad clashes, but harvest seems to have got the mix right, not 100% but much higher than most festivals. I think the other major factor has been the weather, gum boots are getting boring and sunset sounds took everyone by surprise in 2011. not a promoters fault and splendour has had it's fair share too.

I really do not know the answer but the playing field has definitley changed and needs a shakeup but how, good question, I reckon maybe a open forum in 5 or 6 largish venues with all the major promoters, with a govt official on hand to join in. That way we could tackle scalping, alcohol, acts, tix prices and attitudes towards the future.

actually thats it, big massive forum around oz and discuss this, punter v promoter v govt. get it all out in the open, no bitching on FB i hate this, i hate that, once and for all organize it properly.

sarahanne

sarahanne said on the 6th Jan, 2012

this is a really poorly written article. i'd expect something like this from nme not fasterlouder; you've focus it all on big day out and smaller mainstreme focused music festivals completely ignoring the fact that soundwave has done extremely well in times of this global festival downturn. on the other hand; i agree with the point that festivals have lost their hype.
hence, i think that if someone were to create a two day national touring festival with some of the
world's largest acts, you'd see great attendance with large revenue.
these national one day festivals are growing tired, just like people grew tired of one day cricket. change needs to be implemented to gather interest. i think also that festivals needs to have further adaptions to the concept, so instead of just music and in some cases comedy, things like forums, art exhibitions, conventions, they should all be considered to boost numbers from offering to different audiences.

It was written by a freelance journalist and isn't meant to be conclusive - it is just raising points to get a deabte started so the forum can debate the finer points, as you now have done.

Jestarrr

Jestarrr said on the 6th Jan, 2012

To be honest I feel that festival's are less about the quality of the band's playing in them, and more about the atmosphere and culture associated with those bands and the festival itself. Each of Australia's larger/travelling festivals (which I'd label as Splendour, BDO, Parklife, Laneway, Stereosonic, Meredith, Falls and now Harvest) have an identity about them, which defines them in a way.

Compare the festivals on that list with their ticket sales -

Splendour - Significantly struggled with sales this year, did well the year before.
BDO - Reduced sales this year.
Parklife - Average (unsure)
Laneway - Relatively successful
Stereosonic - Sold out.
Meredith - Sold out
Falls - Sold out
Soundwave - Sold Out
Harvest - Sold Out

The festivals above which haven't been as successful, have all come under criticism for the acts - and the crowd asscoiated with those acts. Splendour is the most obvious one, with huge criticism for the decision to bring in Kanye (who, on a side note, I love) - though there were clearly a significant amount more douches in the Splendour ampitheatre than normal. Parklife has shifted from a more dance based festival to one with some indie influences as well.
The point of all this is that these festivals have their identity, and the ones that have success know their audience will retain success. Meredith, Falls, Laneway, Stereo, SW - they all know their market and cater well to it (a necessity in modern times where festival-goers are more frugal than before)

New festivals will continue to struggle, because they have not established a reputation for themselves and cannot attract significant acts like the others. This affects older festivals like Stonefest too - who wants to continue seeing the Aston Shuffle, The Grates and The Vines year after year? The major festivals have the pulling power to bring international acts - and without some form of variety - something different - the little festivals will continue dropping.
Harvest, while a new festival, had the power of AJ - who brought in huge headline acts - Portishead, Flips etc. He had his audience, and despite laneway being the predominant indie festival of the season, provided enough quality to justify money from people (myself included).

The festival bubble has indeed burst, in my opinion. Unless new festivals can provide the quality offered by something like Harvest, they'll struggle to find a place in the wallets and hearts of punters, and will get usurped by other festivals.

RAMONESelaar

RAMONESelaar said on the 6th Jan, 2012

Given the size of BDO and the amount of issues it's having/had, it seems entirely reasonable to focus on it.

As for Soundwave, did you hear about the smashing success that was Soundwave Revolution?

Soundwave 2012 is a very top heavy lineup - yes, AJ's pulled relatively big headliners, but the middle/bottom of the bill is mostly abysmal and was clearly done on the cheap (hence the greater Australian presence).

IamAnnonyMouse

IamAnnonyMouse said on the 6th Jan, 2012

i think we should get behind the australian burning man festival - set it a million miles from anywhere, in the harshest conditions, where anything goes with a gift economy (i.e. no money changes hands for anything once you enter the site).
rooooooolllllllllling otfl

Scooter mcgavin

Scooter mcgavin said on the 6th Jan, 2012

Clearly Festivals require a niche market, whilst history and tradition also help. Big day out is one festival which this year failed to find a niche market, it got a bunch of headliners who appeal to certain deomographics, i.e Kanye and soundgarden however Kanye was here less than a year back and Soundgarden are not the popular band they once were, coupled with the fact that there would be little else on the line up which appeals to the average sound garden fan. Kasabian whilst I am a fan, lack credentials as a headliner in Australia since they played as a small band in 2010 & dont have the support they have in Europe.

Not only are the headliners the problem, the rest of the line up is all over the place, with bands from every genre but not enough to bring any fans of that one genre, also the recycling of Australian bands which if you have ever been to a festival you surely have seen before. Thats BDO's problem, next up is Splendour, yes Splendour!

Splendour is a great festival dont get me wrong and whilst they are far better at getting a largely Indie line up with popular headliners, the price growth of this festival is unsustainable. The festival made the decision to go from 2 days to 3, which meant they needed more money for more bands and directly handed this over to punters, not only this but they also spend way too much money on big popular headliners, see Kanye & Coldplay and less on a deep and illusive backlog of mid level Indie Internationals. I believe the move back to Byron and going back to 2 days with a rethink of future line ups will increase its popularity back to quick sell out status.

Harvest was a great niche festival that had a fantastic line up and the way it was marketed. However the festival will need to step up its organisation and management if it is to continue to be a success as it does not have history on its side yet. Nobody will go because it is Harvest, like what happened with BDO for many years, rather they need to keep developing a great reputation.

IMO Falls Festival & Groovin The Moo are two of the most successful festivals atm aside from the Dance Festivals, where tasteless people will go to as long as Skrillex is there.

End Rant Kanye Style/

RAMONESelaar

RAMONESelaar said on the 6th Jan, 2012

i think we should get behind the australian burning man festival - set it a million miles from anywhere, in the harshest conditions, where anything goes with a gift economy (i.e. no money changes hands for anything once you enter the site).
rooooooolllllllllling otfl

Already happening

Try harder, buddy.

iNegro

iNegro said on the 6th Jan, 2012

Heatwave. That is all.

01seb

01seb said on the 6th Jan, 2012

If you look at the festivals that are succeeding (Soundwave, Stereosonic, Future, Harvest) they all have two things in common. They listen to the fans and book the acts they most want to see, and they don't stray from their specific genres. And the struggling festivals (Big Day Out, Splendour in the Grass) are trying to expand their reach and it is not working at all.

It all comes down to one thing, money. If I'm going to fork out $150+ of my hard-earned cash to go to a festival I'm going to want to see the acts which I enjoy and care about most. In the case of most people, most of their favourite acts come from 1 or 2 genres. So I'm more likely to go to a festivals that specifically caters to the genre of music I prefer, rather the one which is a jack-of-all-trades.

Another issue is promoters trying to secure the biggest and most expensive headliners in an effort to out-do each other.If I'm looking at a lineup poster, I'm not focusing on the headliner, I'm looking at the undercard or the acts who am I going to spend the majority of my day watching. If there's not much there of interest to me, and I love the headliner, I probably won't go and will wait for a sideshow or future tour.

With Ken West's explanation of how hard it is to book big headliners for a festival because it's more financially viable for them to do their own tour makes perfect sense. If this is so, they why not learn from this?
Book a decent, but not massive headliner, save some cash from not engaging in a bidding war, and spend this on getting a kickass undercard.

bjw1

bjw1 said on the 6th Jan, 2012

this is a really poorly written article. i'd expect something like this from nme not fasterlouder; you've focus it all on big day out and smaller mainstreme focused music festivals completely ignoring the fact that soundwave has done extremely well in times of this global festival downturn. on the other hand; i agree with the point that festivals have lost their hype.
hence, i think that if someone were to create a two day national touring festival with some of the
world's largest acts, you'd see great attendance with large revenue.
these national one day festivals are growing tired, just like people grew tired of one day cricket. change needs to be implemented to gather interest. i think also that festivals needs to have further adaptions to the concept, so instead of just music and in some cases comedy, things like forums, art exhibitions, conventions, they should all be considered to boost numbers from offering to different audiences.

lol.

sam249 said on the 6th Jan, 2012

...these festivals need to announce the full line up before tickets even go on sale,so ppl (who are assuming things like bdo will as per usual will have a good line up) dont go waste $180 on seeing some asswipe like kanye west headlining an 'indie rock' festival...

mattymac

mattymac said on the 6th Jan, 2012

i've said it before: i just don't fucking buy the bad press the sydney live music scene is getting. balls to that. there's great music playing week in week out. there might be fewer venues than the heir apparent melbourne (christ i'm over the rivalry), but that doesn't mean we don't have our share of great music being imported and exported.

as far as festivals, it's a simple game of maths. too many, too often for too much. the idea of becoming a promoter or hatching your own festival seems to be more accessible or at least more attractive as a money making scheme these days, which is ironic given the enormous difficulty festivals face in actually making a profit within the first few years of existence. the difficulty lies in the costs - too many acts and/or too many big name acts.

kanye cost bdo $6mil this year, and soundgarden $3.5mil. plus the 20 other names on the bill, infrastructure etc. sure, this is the top of the pile, but a good example of the money being spent and why it trickles down to us. and that's just one festival.

we have to throw out the idea that bigger is better. just like big name franchises are drying up in these economic times (borders, myers, etc), the market favours smaller operations looking for a smaller piece of the pie. micro festivals supporting maybe 4-5 groups playing for a certain demographic for a slightly above average premium than a stand alone show. overseas acts can still make money by doing their own tours, but can use these micro festivals as both promo and reward to and for the fans.

instead of crying doom, i think it's exciting to see where this format will go next. promoters and artists are being forced to become creative (gasp!!) to be successful, and i'm all for that.

crackthatback said on the 6th Jan, 2012

i want free festival tickets!!! haha...at least i'm not copying and pasting someone else's forum post. i've just come back from a couple years living in the uk and seriously, i am not gonna devote much of my money to aussie festivals over the next year. it is so much cheaper over there (compare what i spent on entry for only one day to stereosonic was around the same price as a week at sziget in budapest for example with a much bigger lineup and a great deal more interesting people camping facilities). the club scene has turned terrible here and that is why festivals have hit saturation point, not cos the weather is great or because the market is there - i went to a 2 day outdoor festival that cost 35 quid in newcastle and had iggy pop, tinie tempah, example and plan b among many others as headliners. where is the justification for such high festival prices here when we have so many locals on a festival lineup? and what is with the astronomical price of splendour in the grass? promoters think that if festivals keep chugging along and prices keep bumping up then people will pay whatever but aussie festivals need to be more accessible to people who love music (not walking around a festival in the sun with little clothing and much fake tan on) or you'll attract the wrong element (ie tryhard kids who will spend whatever mum & dad give them and make absolute fools of themselves every time). camping festivals also need to step up and allow byo as long as there is a security policy of no glass near performance areas. you're already making a huge profit from ticket sales, you will still sell drinks at the bar but the drink prices need to be realistic. i could go on forever but i think the real message that needs to be made here is that dubstep music needs to die a fast painful death and then we can go back to enjoying music without needing to anaesthetise ourselves before entering the moshpit, thus reducing the need for sniffer dog presence and putting less financial strain on police and (trickle down) taxpayers like me (not you, you punk kids who like skrillex and think nero sounds good). i'm out

kanooksta said on the 6th Jan, 2012

i love festivals...love 'em. the first one i went to was livid and since, i have been to hundreds of them. the thing i think affects the festival most is quite simply the people who come.

you can have an awesome line up and cheap beer but if the punters are dumb and start throwing punches, stealing your stuff and chucking bottles into the crowd - which by the way is one of the primary reasons you can't byo to most festivals (broken glass is a bitch)- then the festival sux. the other thing that really affects a festival...is the toilets. you've got to have good toilets and if it's a three dayer, showers.

festivals have definately changed a lot. when i was 17 you could mosh and crowd surf and know that you were going to be safe. people would pick you up if you fell in the pit and give you water. now, people are rude and pushy and a lot of the time you're on the defensive in a crowd.

i'm not sure whether to bring this up or not....but 20 years ago the drugs were happier. you'd be floating all day but now i think there's a lot more agro in the party poppers and it makes for more violence. there's heaps more cops and doggies about now, which makes everything a lot more tense and i think it makes the nature of partying a lot more sinister.

the drinking has also gotten worse. maybe i'm just getting older, but i don't remember going to a festival just to drink, we went to dance. butt now alcohol has become a main focus and of course the lines have gotten huge...people spend all their time at the bar... duh....drink less and the lines will be shorter.

yes there's heaps of festivals and if you're just picking any old festival by an organiser who's out to make a quick buck so spend nothing on developing ideas that are interesting and if you're just going to get pissed to a beat, pick up a chick and bash up her boyfriend, then maybe the bubble has popped.

gatherings of people have been going on since the tribes came together to eat moths and i doubt humans it will change, there are some fantastic festivals around. lots of lovely festival bubbles of all shapes and sizes for you to get trippy with and laugh until you wet your pants. there's organisers who go out of their way to give their people amazing experiences with fantastic bands, deadly beats, beautiful people, mind-blowing art and performances and loads of activity. you just have to know where to go. i go to great festivals. so for me, they live on strong. in fact they will never die.

squagz

squagz said on the 7th Jan, 2012

I'd like to elaborate on the point kanooksta made in par four.

It's no coincidence the recent peak festival period through the mid '00s coincided with a time when good drugs were readily available. And by readily I mean, they were no more than two text messages away for pretty much anyone. I witnessed many a staunch clean-liver converted to a festival pill popper during those years. Now all that's left is kitchen meth, which middle class kids (the key festival demographic) are rightly afraid of, and a certain amphetamine-based prescription med. Punters have proven they will happily take the latter by the fistful, but it carries nowhere near the appeal of a day on MDMA.

To a mass of ticket buyers, festivals are as much about the anticipation of what the little pill in their pocket holds, as they are about the acts. Sure drugtakers don't make up a whole festival crowd, but the buzz surely starts with them. And then they tell two friends, and they tell their friends and they tell their friends and so on and so on and so on. You know how these things work.

During that period when seemingly EVERYone had a day of euphoria lined up, the once-a-year festival punter would be damned if they weren't going to get a piece of that action too - this included those who weren't interested in getting high. The buzz was there, the tickets would sell - that magic amongst the masses isn't there at the moment. The middle-class base crowd needs more than speed to get them excited.

Of course the music die-hards will always remain, but what music die-hard is going to bother with the shittiness of a festival in 2011/12? There's not even enough music tragics to buy the tens of thousands of tickets needed to cover the expense of festival organisation in the current climate.

Until ecstasy makes its much-desired comeback, it seems a back-to-basics approach is imminent. This is obviously fantastic for music, but not so much for promoters chasing blockbuster profits.

So what's needed for the survival of the McFestivals we were all flocking to at one stage? The return of ecstasy of course. Paul Mac wasn't being a smart arse when he thanked ecstasy dealers at the '95 ARIAs.

jeff3002

jeff3002 said on the 7th Jan, 2012

"Do Victorians just care the most about live music? "

Pfft! I bet you my friends and I have had to put in 10x more effort and spent 10x more than most Victorians have as we are regularly travelling from Adelaide to various festivals in Victoria and interstate because we can't get enough of live music! BDO is going down the drain because we're all sick of the 'have to please everyone' music festivals. Gone are the days now where the only option we had was to pay $160 to see 2 or 3 bands we liked on the bill and have to put up with the rest of the aussie/international recycled filler. I say bring on more genre specific festivals where the 'roid-raging-fluro-fuckwits can fight amongst their own kind and the rest of us can actually go and enjoy a relaxing festival where people are there for the music (REAL music), and not to been 'seen'.

LiveSceneApp

LiveSceneApp said on the 7th Jan, 2012

i certainly hope live music events do not fade away. that was the inspiration behind our company. there are also a few non-profit organizations that were created to support live events, which is great to see.

cheers,

conrad

justjeans

justjeans said on the 8th Jan, 2012

"for example, you%u2019ll probably not find parklife aficionados cavorting at harvest festival with a nice cup of tea."

untrue. i went to both in 2011 and enjoyed both very much. though seeing portishead and the national is more memorable to me than seeing nero, simian mobile disco and diplo, i was still able to appreciate the different types of music at both festivals.
i think they'll exist for as long as people want to go. the smaller ones might not survive but as long as there is a festival with bands people want to see, people will attend. i think the major problem with a festival like splendour, as someone has mentioned, is the problem with byo alcohol and camping. camping festivals should allow byo alcohol in cans/plastic and a limit to a certain amount (12 cans per person, for example). splendour also makes you pay for camping on top of your event ticket. falls doesn't and it adds to the whole experience. if splendour was to combine camping with an event ticket - especially if they continue to have it at woodford, where other options are harder to come by than byron bay - then they probably would have sold out in 2011.

markrees said on the 8th Jan, 2012

why can't i post my reply.
is there a word limit?

markrees said on the 8th Jan, 2012

firstly i will say that it has been probably 14 years since i actually paid to go to a music festival. there would have to be a very special line up for me to considering paying for a festival and i cannot see this happening in australia in the near future.
i attended the first big day out that was staged in melbourne and the have probably only missed a few bdo festivals in melbourne over the years.
of course the first few were more memorable: they had much smaller crowds and plenty of room to travel between stages. australia was by no means saturated by non mainstream alternative touring artists during this period and the people who were attending reflected this; as a primary passion being the music that was on offer at the festival.
over the next few years, i saw the big day out deteriorate, though i continued to attend this and other festivals.
in my opinion, a really good festival will only offer for a range of music in a couple of different genres at the most.

over the years there have been many good festivals in melbourne:
summersault.
alternative nations.
vans warped festivals.
homebake(when it toured).
the v festival.
but these festivals all had one thing in common, a similar style and the idea of a putting on a festival of that particular style.

in my opinion the big day out and other festivals have not maintained any integrity or credibility.

music sales have declined due to new media/internet and the touring from internationals has increased.
it is probably inevitable that the amount of music festivals therefore increased as well.

instead of putting on 'a festival of music' which will sell tickets, some festivals have become akin to just a brand name and the product is by no means as good as it once was.

festivals often seem to book a particular act/s as a selling points and just throw in 'some fillers between the singles', rather than arranging quality music of a similar style.

the big day has being doing this for many years and other festivals now seem to be following. perhaps those marketers involved in the booking process have other jobs during the year and when it comes to the festivals, they simply suggest whoever has sold or downloaded well, or, whoever is left available.

example: bdo last year with the band 'tool' and the previous year with 'muse'. these bands were guaranteed to sell a lot of the tickets, but they have very little in common with most of the other music at the festival. in this case, both of these bands in my mind have both passed their peak and worse than this, they were trying to play stadium shows at a festival. i do not know what was worse, the performances or the fans, it was rather sad.
again the bdo(brand bdo) have done this with kayne west and soundgarden in 2012, both commercial acts from what could be considered opposing spectrums(also guaranteeing a great crowd????) and coupled with little substance between 'the selling points'.
i still wonder what the hell happened to dead pres who were meant to be playing in 2010.

the move to the flemington racecourse car park was a further downgrade of the quality of this festival, obviously is it cheaper to hire this area.

the only reason i have maintained a loyalty to the bdo brand, it because it has been a free festival to me for many years.
kasabian are the only worthy note on the 2012 line-up.

the big day out is by no means the only festival that is becoming 'a brand' rather than a true music festival.

meredith: boasted grinderman and graveyard train and not much else at all this year. personally i liken nick cave to andy warhol. both mediocres who surrounded themselves with real artists and established a career by doing so. graveyard train, who became the talk of the town after last years golden plains performance were also guaranteed to sell tickets. again, personally i do not think they live up to the hype.
i have always considered going to meredith in the past, but this year put the idea to bed permanently.

golden plains: was looking like a promising festival after my attendance last year, but the 2012 line up is of little interest.

summadayze: has been of some interest in the past, though never attended as a patron. this festival like the bdo is little more than just a brand name of very poor quality in comparison to other festivals. any festival that has snoop dog (a commercial with a style aimed at early teens who has barely been able to perform his tracks live in his whole career) as a head lining act, really has no credibility as all. this festival may now have mass appeal to the generation y of ipod listeners who have not paid for the commerical music they listen to, but i cannot see how it has any appeal to anyone else.

stereosonic: though i saw very little due to working at the festival was also in the same vein as summadayze, though margainly better. from my position on this festival, it was poorly run and organised. perhaps the quality of a festival is often reflected in the observations of behaviour of those who attend. when people refer to this festival as " steroes' " it also tends throws any idea of credibility out with the jock types that go for little else but to promote the concepts of marketing and exhibitionism: a bunch of people who may well be considered as professional in society, that work out at the gym, get on drugs and then go to festivals to try and be cool. it is not a pretty site at all.

future music festival: was quite an enjoyable festival last year, though the line up this year is nothing to write home about. sure, new order are playing, but what else is there beyond them: '.....'future' seems to be in the past now.'

soundwave: is the only festival that seems to go against the current trend of many of the current festivals, that tend to offer a mash of different genres.
over the last few years soundwave offered music covering the metal and punk styles. they now seem to have streamlined this festival into a metal festival. which in my mind is good for both them and the patrons, though it is not my cup of tea.

parklife: the 2010 mix of indie and dance was another enjoyable free festival, but hardly worth paying hundreds of dollars just to see a few performers.

harvest: a great line up, though rather expensive.

over the years i have attended at falls festival/rock above the falls on four separate occasions as 'a punter'.
i attended pre 1996 when the festival was known as 'rock above the falls'
in 2002, just to see blondie in their only australian performance in a twenty year period.
and both in 2009 and 2010: for something to do on new years eve and for the headlining acts alone.
after last year, i decided that would be the last time i went to the falls festival...
...until i was offered a job at the falls in 2011.

working at a festival also gives a different perspective on the festival.

i have previously worked in av at numerous festivals including: summadayse, the blues festival, v festival, and others.

the falls festival was an absolute delight to work at and from this perspective far better than any other festival i have worked at.
this has rejuventated my interest in this festival.
however, like other festivals, the falls have fallen victim to the 'headliner'.

a festival, despite what the marketers say, should not really need a headlining act at all, if there is a plethora of good music.
this years falls head lining act the arctic monkeys, though a great band would have been better scheduled at the timeslot before the grates who should have brought in the new year.

the falls is now the only festival that i am already looking forward to in the next year. who knows, maybe they could bring back the likes of the thrills, turin breaks and someone else set to tour the world in 2012.....

now personally, as a 'punter' and despite the sentiments i have expressed, the more festivals that are staged the better.
being selective and having choice does not always cause me confusion.
having a scope of festival means that as someone who is passionate about the quality of music, i can attend the better festivals and also avoid 'them' in doing so.

and the reason i am writing this... laneway is one of only 3 festivals of summer 2011/2012 that has an appealing line up.....

wombatizer said on the 9th Jan, 2012

i do agree with what a lot of people are saying here about festivals and genres. i only liked 2 bands from the big day out line up this year (in the indie genre) but am not willing to shell out $150 and then have to deal with a bunch of wasted 14 year olds in croched tank tops and ripped levi's. festivals to me have changed in the sense of crowd. 3 or 4 years ago you never used to have people going for the sake of saying they went to falls or big day out. i will continue to buy tickets to soundwave because it is pretty well organised and one of the rare festivals that does not really stray outside of it's normal genres. also i find at soundwave almost everyone is their for the music whether its a 50yr old man or 15yr old girl. i honestly can't remember the last time i asked someone who they were keen to see at big day out to only get a blank stare as a response. harvest did a brilliant job at creating a good festival, lineup and also atmosphere. i got turned off at groovin the moo last year due to crowd. i find it much easier going to a gig and paying $50-60 and not having to sit through acts i dont care about.

DinkiDIDude

DinkiDIDude said on the 9th Jan, 2012

If you look at the festivals that are succeeding (Soundwave, Stereosonic, Future, Harvest) they all have two things in common. They listen to the fans and book the acts they most want to see, and they don't stray from their specific genres. And the struggling festivals (Big Day Out, Splendour in the Grass) are trying to expand their reach and it is not working at all.

It all comes down to one thing, money. If I'm going to fork out $150+ of my hard-earned cash to go to a festival I'm going to want to see the acts which I enjoy and care about most. In the case of most people, most of their favourite acts come from 1 or 2 genres. So I'm more likely to go to a festivals that specifically caters to the genre of music I prefer, rather the one which is a jack-of-all-trades.

Another issue is promoters trying to secure the biggest and most expensive headliners in an effort to out-do each other.If I'm looking at a lineup poster, I'm not focusing on the headliner, I'm looking at the undercard or the acts who am I going to spend the majority of my day watching. If there's not much there of interest to me, and I love the headliner, I probably won't go and will wait for a sideshow or future tour.

With Ken West's explanation of how hard it is to book big headliners for a festival because it's more financially viable for them to do their own tour makes perfect sense. If this is so, they why not learn from this?
Book a decent, but not massive headliner, save some cash from not engaging in a bidding war, and spend this on getting a kickass undercard.

Spot on mate and for what its worth I endorse this article to win, I live in a small coastal village in southern NSW and my closest festival is the ACT and for anything thats considered 'major' and not strictly limited to Dance/Electro its a six hour trip up the road (with the exception of GTM, absolute blast in my books will be going again this year despite Blue Juice being on the bill), im all for supporting festivals but thats a fair chunk of cash when your pretty 'meh' about the majority of the lineup.....ive got a ticket for BDO but with the crew im going with pulling out almost weekly it might be the first time in 8 years I miss one.....Soundwaves locked in tighter than Michael Clarkes captaincy though.......

wombatizer said on the 9th Jan, 2012

i do agree with what a lot of people are saying here about festivals and genres. i only liked 2 bands from the big day out line up this year (in the indie genre) but am not willing to shell out $150 and then have to deal with a bunch of wasted 14 year olds in croched tank tops and ripped levi's. festivals to me have changed in the sense of crowd. 3 or 4 years ago you never used to have people going for the sake of saying they went to falls or big day out. i will continue to buy tickets to soundwave because it is pretty well organised and one of the rare festivals that does not really stray outside of it's normal genres. also i find at soundwave almost everyone is their for the music whether its a 50yr old man or 15yr old girl. i honestly can't remember the last time i asked someone who they were keen to see at big day out to only get a blank stare as a response. harvest did a brilliant job at creating a good festival, lineup and also atmosphere. i got turned off at groovin the moo last year due to crowd. i find it much easier going to a gig and paying $50-60 and not having to sit through acts i dont care about.

truthlies

truthlies said on the 9th Jan, 2012

Punters like myself are enthusiastic on lineups and hang on the announcement, but the lineups just havn't hit the mark this year. Its dissappointing when you read a lineup like BDO and its full of Australian artists which tour every year anyway.

The only thing BDO has going for it is Soundgarden and most of the artists on the bill I wouldn't pay to see on their own. If you are going to book a big international act like them you would need another big international artist at least closely style related, Kanye was not a good choice.

Can I just bitch for a second, I only liked half a dozen artists on the bill originally and when the set times came out nothing but clashes - I will only get to see 3 acts I love - one I would pay for. I give up on BDO Im to dissappointed.

iamliv said on the 10th Jan, 2012

has the festival bubble burst???? well der, if you needed to ask your head is in the sand or you just turned 12! the real question is why? although everybody knows the answers, talent, oversupply, quality and price. my best guess is quite specifically value for money and the love of the game.
for perusal i have listed some previous lineups:

]vans warped tour 1998
blink 182, pennywise, frenzal rhomb, 311, might mighty bosstones, reel big fish, the vandals, body jar + heaps more...
cost: approximately $25!!!!!

bdo 1999
marilyn manson, hole, fatboy slim, korn, manic street preachers, soulfly, regurgitator, powderfinger, living end, jebediah, superjesus, sonic animation, bexta, groove terminator... + heaps more
ticket price: approx $60

1997 livid festival
cake, powderfinger, veruca salt, spiderbait, ben folds five, reef, bloodhound gang, millencolin, screamfeeder, shihad, grinspoon, superjesus, sidewinder, not from there + many more
ticket price: approx $65

bdo 2000
red hot chilli peppers, foo fighters, blink 182, chemical brothers, nine inch nails, basement jaxx, primal scream, 28 days, gerling, grinspoon, jebediah, killing heidi, magic dirt, shihad, spiderbait, resin dogs shit even yothu yindi was there + many more
ticket price approx $70

livid 2000
the cure, greenday, lou reed, no doubt, dandy warhols, millencolin, grinspoon, royal crown revue muse, unwritten law, bodyjar, guttermouth, salmonella dub + heaps more
ticket price: approx $75

bdo 2001
rammstein, pf harvey, queens of the stone age, black eyed peas, coldplay, limp bizkit, placebo, carl cox, roni size, alex lloyd, pnau, frenzal, powderfinger, you am i, sunk loto, augie march + many more
rip jessica michalik
ticket price: $80

while it may be possible to glance over these amazing lineups without flinching, its impossible to pass by the ticket prices. great festivals are reknowned for pulling in top international bands and awesome australian talent, in fact the best festivals, do so in grandiose proportions. usually even if all the bands you wanted to see were actually one after the other, you still wouldn't be able to fit them all in the one day! compose your own festival list of 8-10 wicked artists, for a price of around $50 to $80 bucks in the good old days and the value is exponential. we do now what was impossible in festival glory days. back when festivals had value, it would be impossible to see some of the amazing local acts for the cost of the ticket let alone the awesome international ones. but now there really is a decision to be made. if i go to three festivals this summer, for an approximate price of $450-$500 would i not be better off just seeing some of my favourite bands at a sideshow?? probably, because the value would be much greater.

and now we know the value's not there, check out the talent. festivals have a real lame passionless vibe about them. headliners are comprised of a few big names combined with a few one hit wonders, spread over 5, 10, 15 festivals. its not just saturation of the festival industry, its a saturation of the entire music industry. there are so many bands to choose from these days its hard to compile a list of 30 that suits the majority, and thus festivals become even bigger and even more expensive.

dont get me wrong there have been some tripping balls festivals in the past few years, but if your going to make people sell their souls, at least make it worth it.

in 2001 splendour in the grass was $45, in 2003 it was $99 and in 2011 it was $526!! wtf.
homebake in 1999 was $45, definately one of the best years ever, but in 2011 it was $99, and that was considered a festival bargain.

these are but a few examples of the skyrocketing prices of saturated, watered down versions of something that used to be awesome. for anyone interested in the economics, thats well above cpi.

so why has the festival bubble burst, think about the best festival you have ever been to? the majority of you will remember (barely) the day for its sick ass lineup, the passion of having to see some of your favourite bands, how it was so awesome you couldn't even barely fit them all in. i think the best ones have been. sadly. unless something drastic is done, unless the festival promoters come together and amalgamate what there is too many of, unless someone buys them all out and creates some kind of metamorphising superfestival without all the bullshit, we are all going to lose one of the greatest gifts of our youth; freedom to let loose while loosing our shit to the best music the world has to offer.

musickeepsusalive

musickeepsusalive said on the 10th Jan, 2012

i don't like festivals, but am forced to go to them when that is the only way of seeing that particular band so i have been to many. i'd prefer to see just one band at night. its hard to rock out in the day time on a 40 degree day standing next to sunburnt douchebags who bag every other band they don't like. it's cramped, food is expensive and its always hard to find water even when it's free. you also get tricked into buying tickets then they announce the sidehshows after you've already spent $150 on a ticket. if i have to go to any then soundwave is first pick.

heanl002 said on the 10th Jan, 2012

there are more festivals touring than ever before in australia, year-round. surely this is a great thing for music lovers?! surely this means everyone’s’ tastes can be catered for and satisfied?! there is little doubt that the festival format, delivered properly, presents numerous benefits to both local and touring musicians and to audiences, particularly in a country so geographically isolated as australia. in the best cases, music festivals provide:

- more bang for the punter's buck - a day long music festival would traditionally dish up the chance to catch quite a number of acts, allowing a generous saving when compared with a number of visits to the local.
- new finds - it would allow people a chance to experience acts they may not usually go out and buy a ticket to, and in turn, may influence them to attend a sideshow or their next tour - surely a win for bands and music lovers.
- exposure - more festival bills across the land provide local and developing australian acts the chance to cut their teeth playing alongside established and respected international and australian bands, in front of audiences larger and outside of their usual support base.
- loyal, target audiences - with such a number of festivals running around the country, you would expect music lovers to be able to find festivals that cater to specific and broader tastes and represent an ongoing 'culture'. this is, of course, what defines the festival experience - the opportunity to see acts of interest in a unique setting, and as part of a unique social environment.
- quality, variety, relevance – for the average punter, more festivals should mean exposure to more great music and the chance to see contemporary, relevant acts. this includes those bands that may not frequently visit our shores, with larger numbers of festivals – and expansion outside of the traditional ‘festival season’ – creating greater windows of opportunity for globe-trotting bands to fit australia into their schedules.

so where has it all gone wrong?

there are a number of factors that seem to have changed the australian music festival culture and experience over the past decade or so. for the most part, festivals are becoming stale, less value for money, and are moving further away from catering for music lovers - with relevant, fresh and respected bands - to an ‘easy’ market audience; one that happily forks out for musically recycled, overpriced, all-weekend binges. many use european and american mega-festivals as a blueprint, with more stages, more parkland space to roam, sit and drink in, cheaper bands that please the masses, and of course, higher prices to allow for things to occur on such a scale and to raise revenue.
attending festivals has become somewhat of a hobby for some - a social calendar date - which of course is fine, but seems to be driven by very different reasons to what may have been the case 10 years ago. are festival curators and organizers going for the easy dollar? has sponsorship and advertising overshadowed the music? are they all trying to please everyone at once?
competition seems so great that organizers are forced to make easy decisions that please the commercial radio feeding masses, instead of challenging audiences with progressive, relevant experiences, and in a country with such a modest population, this is bound to hurt the ‘little guys’.

at the end of the day, there are a number of great festivals that still flourish. this is because they remain loyal to their fan-base, true to their unique culture and aims, and are progressive and varied in what they offer. these festivals don’t jack up ticket prices every year, just because they can, after selling out in record time. they cater for people of all ages and with varied musical interests. they don’t increase ticket numbers and change the unique experience for audiences. they don’t make easy calls, but rather curate relevant, new, different and challenging lineups on minimal stages, with the punters in mind.
...and for christ sake, they’re not welcomed as a place to gather bare-chested or underwear-clad mates.

markrees said on the 10th Jan, 2012

in regards to iamlive comments regarding ticket price:

my recollection is that the big day out melbourne tickets were around $85-$90 in the first year it was staged in melbourne.

i also recall the tickets prices did increase each year in the vicinty of $5 - $10 per year. by about the forth melbourne big day out, i was no longer buying tickets for music festivals.

the stated cost of vans warped tour in 1998 being $25 is also a gross exaggeration as i suspect is the stated cost of splendour 2001 being a mere $45.

however i do recall a homebake festival staged at sydney myer music bowl in melbourne being around $45 or less.

some people will always look at the past a lot more kindly then in the reality of the what actually transpired.

markrees said on the 10th Jan, 2012

in regard to matty mac's comment.

as a punter, i do not care that kayne west cost bdo $6 million and soundagrden $3.5 million. they are ridiculous amounts of money and the festival is neither a hip hop or hard rock genre festival. this path continum that the big day out is on, has ruined the big day out.

basically if these "artists" are that big, they could just play the stadiums in australia like the rod laver arena, whilst the bdo could disperse this poorly spent money on headliners to put together a decent line up, which would be a change from the last few years.

someone tell those in marketing, the difference between booking a '6 figure' big name for playing stadiums and the idea of putting on a 'festival'.

or better still, if the bdo wants to continue on this path just hand the bdo brand to the austereo network that owns the likes of fox fm and mmm fm and be done with it.

crob

crob said on the 11th Jan, 2012

No way has the bubble burst when we have new festival catering for other niche market :-S

iamliv said on the 11th Jan, 2012

in regards to iamlive comments regarding ticket price:

my recollection is that the big day out melbourne tickets were around $85-$90 in the first year it was staged in melbourne.

i also recall the tickets prices did increase each year in the vicinty of $5 - $10 per year. by about the forth melbourne big day out, i was no longer buying tickets for music festivals.

the stated cost of vans warped tour in 1998 being $25 is also a gross exaggeration as i suspect is the stated cost of splendour 2001 being a mere $45.

however i do recall a homebake festival staged at sydney myer music bowl in melbourne being around $45 or less.

some people will always look at the past a lot more kindly then in the reality of the what actually transpired.

actually you have no idea what your talking about. i put some research into my arguement to provide a valid point about value. you have since made unfounded pointless comments. some people will always look at themselves more kindly then in the reality of what actually transpired. i couldn't be bothered to find the exact price of the first bdo held in melbourne, but it was in 1993, however in 1992 the bdo was held in sydney for a cost of $40, in 1994 it was $45!
you can download the ticket off this link http://bigdayout.com/vault/1994

in 2001 it was $80 see the ticket here http://www.google.com.au/imgres?imgurl=http://www.musiciscrap.com/giglists/gigs_pre2002/004_bdo2000ticket.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.musiciscrap.com/giglists/9801.html&usg=__sj0ouvudjjz5qeeugq2ovcrh8no=&h=370&w=674&sz=119&hl=en&start=20&zoom=1&tbnid=clbphh-ar9qujm:&tbnh=76&tbnw=138&ei=nusmt5_zbmzymaxx6ayebg&prev=/images%3fq%3dbig%2bday%2bout%2b1999%26hl%3den%26sa%3dn%26gbv%3d2%26tbm%3disch%26prmd%3divns&itbs=1

also splendour - are you sure it wasn't $45??? cause thats what the poster says http://www.saminator.com/2001/07/21/splendour-in-the-grass-belongil-fields-byron-bay-sat-21-jul-2001/

and yes vans warped tour was $25, and it was awesome on top of that.

i suspect the only thing that is grossly exaggerated is your comment, and probably more so your perceived intelligence in making them!

batdan

batdan said on the 11th Jan, 2012

I remember when mars bars cost 40 cents. Not from a festival though.

crob

crob said on the 11th Jan, 2012

Yeah it feels like people are forgetting inflation.... then there’s the fact that September 11 caused a surge in insurance prices for large events what makes comparing today’s prices to festivals to prices over ten years ago as little ridiculous

markrees said on the 11th Jan, 2012

what do you think? post your comment...

markrees said on the 11th Jan, 2012

actually you have no idea what your talking about. i put some research into my arguement to provide a valid point about value. you have since made unfounded pointless comments. some people will always look at themselves more kindly then in the reality of what actually transpired. i couldn't be bothered to find the exact price of the first bdo held in melbourne, but it was in 1993, however in 1992 the bdo was held in sydney for a cost of $40, in 1994 it was $45!
you can download the ticket off this link http://bigdayout.com/vault/1994

in 2001 it was $80 see the ticket here http://www.google.com.au/imgres?imgurl=http://www.musiciscrap.com/giglists/gigs_pre2002/004_bdo2000ticket.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.musiciscrap.com/giglists/9801.html&usg=__sj0ouvudjjz5qeeugq2ovcrh8no=&h=370&w=674&sz=119&hl=en&start=20&zoom=1&tbnid=clbphh-ar9qujm:&tbnh=76&tbnw=138&ei=nusmt5_zbmzymaxx6ayebg&prev=/images%3fq%3dbig%2bday%2bout%2b1999%26hl%3den%26sa%3dn%26gbv%3d2%26tbm%3disch%26prmd%3divns&itbs=1

also splendour - are you sure it wasn't $45??? cause thats what the poster says http://www.saminator.com/2001/07/21/splendour-in-the-grass-belongil-fields-byron-bay-sat-21-jul-2001/

and yes vans warped tour was $25, and it was awesome on top of that.

i suspect the only thing that is grossly exaggerated is your comment, and probably more so your perceived intelligence in making them!

no bdo prices are listed at either links nprovided.
i stand corrected on the splendour 2001 price, it appeared to be an all australian line-up in 2001.
i stand by my recollection of bdo prices in melbourne and recall them being $100+ around the third or fourth mebourne bdo.
i did write "suspect" the splendour price was a gross exaggeration.
as for vans wapred being $25 i still doubt the figure.
would a true punk have crawled under the fence to save $25 ??

ThatDude123

ThatDude123 said on the 12th Jan, 2012

Well, I've arrived at this thread late, haven't I?

Anywho, may as well throw in my two cents in the slight hope of winning a couple of ticket, right?

That said, it is very very ironic that a competition asking us to exemplify whether or not the festival bubble has burst is offering up tickets to a festival as the prize. A festival, mind you, that isn't sold out and plastered the whole of the Sydney CBD with posters (an illegal act, I might add) during Festival First Night in a last ditch hope to gain some exposure. Also, let's not forget how much of this is a real "first world problem" to the South-East Coast: Adelaide (farken), Perth and regional Australia are still quite barren; hell, even Brisbane gets neglected these days. And let's not even talk about New Zealand.

So, what does this say so far? It tells me the first major point: that we have 45 posts by about 20 different forumers, some of them new (hi guys, I'm the one they call the hipster here btw), all trying to argue the to's and fro's of the current festival climate, some even attacking the article itself, but all ultimately want to go to the festival. It's a sign that, given the opportunity, anyone will go to any festival, barring personal preference (I'll get to that later). If you hand them a ticket, and tell them they can have a day where they can see a lot of great music in an outdoor venue, with the possibility of a few friends involved and some grog, people will flock. You have to consider that most festival attendees are probably on casual employment contracts, and in tertiary education, meaning getting time off work is no biggie and the only real periods that festivals shouldn't be planning their events are during the exam periods of June and October/early November (looking back, festivals on or close to those months have an odd pattern of not doing so well. This may have been Harvest's fatal flaw).

But then again, it is exactly this sort of mentality that brings every Event Management grad into the business: that there is so much opportunity. Opportunity that despite all the whining doesn't seem to be going away. Stereosonic held the biggest one-day festival in Australia last November, Soundwave has sold out all of its east coast dates, Meredith and Golden Plains both put up the sell out signs early, the Groovin The Moo tour continues to be going strong. And it isn't just in attendance figures, either; as you guys at fasterlouder can tell, despite the lack of sales there is still a huge interest in the lineup rumours for festivals all year round, both here and abroad.

Normally, this would be where i would say "but where did it all go wrong?". But in the past few days we've seen a change in the discussion, with Ken West attacking AJ Maddah's business model as being spin-driven and unsupported of the Australian scene, while we've also seen a promoter of a prominent hip-hop tour talk about his huge losses, only for his creditors to come out in the comments saying he is hiding the truth. It's a sign that the industry itself is allowing a huge opportunity to pass by not reorganising quickly enough to a changing climate.

Australia finds itself in a unique place in the international festival field: we are a huge nation with a small population, a currency that has only recently become strong, practically uniform legislature in regards to event staging and are millions of kilometres away from both the USA and UK (where most big-ticket acts would come from, let's not kid oursleves), let alone any other nation. This has developed over the years into, what I believe, is a culture where we accept that you can get one or two internationals, a steady stream of "festival regulars" who are on high rotation on triple J plus a few locals who want exposure and put on a "festival" just because that's what they've done every year since the first Big Day Out. Looking over the festivals that did occur last year, a lot of them fit this generic mould.

It's a horrible formula that, as more people enter the industry, seems to be either spreading to the point that hearing Boy and Bear's Feeding Line live five times in a month is an actual possibility if you lived on the East Coast, or it's being avoid at such an extreme that festivals are being padded out with unprofitable international acts with fanbases smaller than most University-affiliated societies, probably placed there by managers who are basically using us like the Studio System used theatres in the Golder Era of cinema. It means that these days people are choosing to go to niche fests (Soundwave's success is testament to that, as is Defqon's and Stereosonic's) or taking a ridiculously cheap flight to Europe or the USa to go to one of their festivals

I fail to see how this is a money issue, as is often purported; money is ultimately the hand-wipe excuse that everyone will pull out when times are tough. The truth is, it has never been easier for Australian youths with disposable incomes to either save the immense amounts of cash, or be allowed immense amounts of credit via a personal loan or credit card, to pay these exuberant ticket prices. And when measured as a percentage of average wages, we are actually not doing as bad as some places. Note that the difference in price between Splendour 2010 and 2011 was a mere $40, all things considered. But the lack of ease to get to Woodford compared to Byron, as well as a lineup that stuck to the above formula bar some Asian-exclusive acts didn't do it any favours. If it wanted a sell-out, it should have advertised its festival with Tourism QLD to the rest of Asia and hoped the lure of Kanye West, Jane's Addiction and Pulp would have brought in some intrepid explorers.

So what does all my blabbering mean? Or TL;DR ALBERT GET TO THE POINT

It means the festival bubble hasn't burst. It's actually pretty healthy. But we have to think that we can't market festivals like we used to anymore. A formula that was once a gift back in the days of the first few BDO's has now been run so far into the ground it could possibly be blamed for single-handedly destroying Washington's career. The industry has to better curate lineups, offer greater experiences, plan with every level of logistics to put on better shows. Even older festivals have to re-evaluate where they stand because offering things like they used to wont cut it in such a packed market. The Laneway Festival is getting there, thankfully. Meredith and Golden Plains are already at that place. We also have to consider our place in the global market and the possibility of Australian festivals being used to lure young tourists similar to many US/Euro fests. Japan is beating us by a fucking long shot already on this point.

Of course, many festivals will cancel. Lots of things cancel. TV shows get cancelled. Your new favourite chip flavour got cancelled. Lunch with the boss got cancelled. But that doesn't mean we are going backwards. It means we are adjusting to a changing market, one where we can afford to bring out better artists, put on better shows and deliver on promises more often, instead of settling for the status quo.

Now, as a gift for reading all of this, here is the Fresh Prince dancing.

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lqtam8wfZ41qdgfr7.gif

batdan

batdan said on the 12th Jan, 2012

How did you know my favourite chip flavour got cancelled?

Ps I skipped the middle bit and read the last bit.

jana80

jana80 said on the 12th Jan, 2012

The point's been raised a few times, but I definately agree that those festivals that cater to a specific genre or "vibe" will stay the strongest / most successful..

Eg's that haven't been mentioned yet: Bluesfest, Peats Ridge, Woodford Folk

ThatDude123

ThatDude123 said on the 12th Jan, 2012

Also, idea for the next one of these things, because i like being an opinionated twat: seeing as everyone is talking about the latest Richard Kingsmill interview and they've just released their 2012 presenter lineup, maybe asking us where we think Triple J fits in the grand scheme of things, Australian music-wise?

Space Monkey

Space Monkey said on the 12th Jan, 2012

the price for the 1998 vans warped tour was $38.25. how do i know that i hear nobody ask, well i've got the ticket sitting in front of me.

and just out of interest, i see in this pile of tickets i've found that when soundgarden headlined the bdo in 1997 the tickets were $59 and their side show at festival hall with you am i was $40.

while this adds very little to the discussion i though i'd share anyway.

gsmaudio said on the 13th Jan, 2012

as you become an old bloke like me, you really begin to hate festivals. i'd still go to a bdo, if they had legendary bands, and several of them. from the fl e-mails i get, there seems to be a bloody festival every weekend. don't know where the kids get the money to go to all of these. soundwave seems to be what the bdo used to be - festivals are not my most memorable gigs thats for sure

lateleigh

lateleigh said on the 23rd Jan, 2012

There's simply not enough shirtless cunts doing gang signs to keep the festivals selling out in advance.

lateleigh

lateleigh said on the 23rd Jan, 2012

There's simply not enough shirtless cunts doing gang signs to keep the festivals selling out in advance.

saywhaa

saywhaa said on the 23rd Jan, 2012

i can see your point gsmaudio. i think like the article states, there has been a glut in festivals, causing breaking point. i always see summer as 'festival/gig' season as many overseas artists prefer to run away from the winter and in most cases, seeing a myriad of bands at festivals means you get a bang for your buck, which is great but as i said, all these festivals makes it more difficult for promoters to make money (competition and what not). bdo is a prime example. it'll be interesting to see what happens here over the next few years. even if (god forbid) festivals die out, trends always go in a circle and they will no doubt be back.

ThatDude123

ThatDude123 said on the 1st Feb, 2012

So, um, who won?

Slip_dog

Slip_dog said on the 2nd Feb, 2012

No its because no one wants to see the music you guys promote live.